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The Happy Feminist

Again, just want to clarify, that I wasn't seriously asking everyone to get along.

One thing I have always said is that feminists argue from the same basic premises (about the importance of freedom and equality for women) but may reach wildly divergent conclusions, have different areas of concern, or have other concerns besides feminism that effect one's feminist viewpoint.

I don't think I realized quite how deep the divisions are in the feminist blogosphere until recently though.

will

I really enjoy the contentious debates when they stay centered on the issues.

However, I do not think that it advances the discussion when the posts center on who is a real feminist instead of what actions do more to promote the values of feminism.

Instead of attacking the issue, it becomes "you hate women" or "you are not much of a feminist" or "you are a self-loathing patriarchy-worshiper," or subtle variations of that them.

will

Mythago and HappyF both do an excellent job of staying on attacking the issue, much more than the person. I tend to look for their posts on topics because I know that they typically say something intelligent about the issue (even though I might disagree with them.)

I believe that the way that they discuss issues (and they often disagree) is a good example of productive disagreement.

evil_fizz

Frankly, I am just sick and tired of radfem versus "sex-positive" debates. They're downright ridiculous, circuitous, and annoying as hell because they are the same damn debate over and over again. How many refusals to understand your opponent's premises can you really go through?

On the topic of Pandagon and Playboy: My work has been cited approvingly by the President's Council on Bioethics. Does anyone actually think that means that I'm supporting Leon Kass and his minions?

The Happy Feminist

Mythago and HappyF both do an excellent job of staying on attacking the issue, much more than the person. I tend to look for their posts on topics because I know that they typically say something intelligent about the issue (even though I might disagree with them.)

You might disagree with us? I always suspected you were a patriarchy-worshiper who hates women.

will

"You might disagree with us? I always suspected you were a patriarchy-worshiper who hates women."

At least I don't wear heels, wax my brows, or have patently obvious breasts!!

Sandy

I've enjoyed the debate, though I'm sorry for all of the hurt feelings. It's like Twisty's blow job brouhaha, though - why do so many people take posts like that so *seriously*? I can see how Jill & Molly got into it, because they each thought of the other as a complete ally, but I'm astounded at the level of anger by many others. Who knew that body hair was such a "touchy" (sorry ;-) ) subject?

My latest reaction is sheer astonishment at how many younger women in NY (the whole east coast) do the Brazilian wax thing. At 43, I have to say I'm happy that I live in the hairier midwest. Where I don't even shave my legs from October to May. Well, except maybe for a holiday party.

L.

What is it, with the young generation`s embrace of the Brazilian, or, as someone more eloquent than I put it, "The Kojack down low, Jack?" Wow, I sound like an old fudd-duddy, don`t I?

My daughter and I were showering at the Y and I was trying hard NOT to watch a young razor-weilding woman right next to us give herself a "landing strip."

The whole Playboy controversy reminds me of college, 20 years ago, when Playboy (or one of those magazines -- details fuzzy) gave my school, Smith, a high "party school" rating, and rival Mt. Holyoke a much lower rating. Some women at Mt. Holyoke organized rallies protesting their school`s inclusion in the college party list.... whereas the women I knew at my school were just glad we got a good rating, if we cared at all -- none of us seemed to care what a sexist magazine said about our school, to the point of organizing a rally about it.

Bitch | Lab

Posted by: Sandy | October 13, 2006 at 11:20 AM --

Sandy --

Me too! I remember the days of Alex Comfort and some rather hirsute drawings in his book, "how to make love to each other.' Now I have an 18 y.o. son who shaves his body hair b/c that is what you do in FL. Excuse me, I mean *I* shave him so his back can be completely hair free, too. *rolls eyes* I blame capitalist patriarhcy, is what i blame!

The Grouch --

Sorry to ruin your lunch, but I'm not an academic. I'm a 'failed' one. Aside from which, most of my knowledge of feminist theory was cultivated completely outside the academia. I grew up working class, spent my 18th year living in a car in a destitute part of the US during a horrible recession. Going to grad school on an $9k salary in 1996 was a pay raise compared to the $5/hr jobs I'd had before that. I will be lucky if I make $15k this year as a freelancer in an industry where you are considered old if you're over 30, and one dominated by men. Sorry to embarass folks by that kind of disucssion, but I am uncouth like that.

I apologize profusely for having the audacity to use a library to learn things on my own!

The Happy Feminist

What a blast from the past! I can't say I would disagree with rating Mount Holyoke lower than Smith as a party school, but I am quite amazed to learn that Playboy was thinking of either school in those terms. I guess the fantasy of all-female campuses was too much for them.

I seem to recall in my era ('89-'93), Playboy did some sort of spread on "Women of the Women's Colleges." They came to Northampton to recruit people from Smith and Mount Holyoke. There was probably a protest but I don't remember because I was too busy trying to pass chem. I wasn't aware of anyone from Mount Holyoke auditioning, but one of those hussies from Smith probably did!

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