Wow. Three months and no posts. Jeez, HF, has everbody got this so down pat that they don't need helpful advice? I doubt it.

The Happy Feminist

I actually got an email from someone who thought it was helpful!


When I was helping teach a post-op transsexual to appear more womanlike, holding the door was a surprisingly significant issue.

It WAS in the South, but still...



"Either way, whatever makes the man more comfortable, is fine."

"Making him comfortable" is one of those things I am pretty damned tired of hearing. How about he just takes responsibility for how he feels instead? Otherwise, I suppose I see what you are saying, except it's really only limited to the "asking for a date" stage of dating...


Now i understand about the whole paying for the date issue. I would never think about trying to control a woman buy paying. I didn't know that's how women saw it. I have to say that i do like to open doors. To me it's a show of respect. But from what I've just read, it sounds like women could care less wether i do it or not. Is that true? You would think a 23 year old would know more about this.


Oh yeah and since I never get asked out, I will most likely always be the one paying. Which is fine and also is cool if she asks me out and she pays.

The Happy Feminist

This post is meant to be a discussion of what I think dating etiquette should be. That's not to say reality has caught up.

Lots (or probably most) women still wait to be asked out. (And I should note that it can be hard for women to ask men out because men sometimes still assume that a woman who does the initiating is desperate or slutty.) Lots of women looooove having doors opened for them (but many don't care for it at all). Lots of women expect the man to always pay for a date. Expectations in this area are in flux, so there are no hard and fast rules, unfortuntately.

I urge women to initiate dates and pay for them. I urge men to let women pay for dates if they want to. I urge women who are dislike the door opening custom to be tolerant of it. I urge women and men to not place to much emphasis on the door-opening thing. (If you open a door for me, I will say thank you and likely think you are a nice person who is trying to be polite, but it's not the be-all and end-all. It doesn't entitle you to anything. It's just a minor, polite gesture.)

You sound like you are laid-back, respectful, and able to go with the flow. I think you'll probably do fine.


I liked this post and hope women will consider your advice.


I'm coming late to the party, I know...

On the door-opening thing: generally, if it's more convenient for me to open the door (I'm closer, the handle is on my side, etc), I will open the door. It's politeness and respect. If someone else opens the door, I smile and say "thank you" graciously, taking it as a gesture of respect.

I think we could do worse than to provide small gestures like this for each other...

Bird's Eye View

He, this is reasonable.

And yet...it appears not so for some of the fanatical estrogen junkies here. Krist, what's wrong with making each other feel comfortable, if it matters not to you either way, SARAH? A date is not a WAR, jeezus. At least not to the rest of the world... With that attitude, why even go out on a date in the first place???

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