DISCUSSION THREAD: MOST MISOGYNIST OR FEMINIST MOVIE YOU HAVE EVER SEEN?

Annie Hunter suggests that I open some threads up for discussion while I get back on my feet.  And in response to my last post on the Wicker Man, Aideen asks:  What is the most misogynist movie you have ever seen? (and why?)

I'll also ask the reverse question, what is the most feminist movie you have ever seen?  Marc at Punkass Blog makes a case on behalf of Rosemary's Baby, notwithstanding the fact that it was produced by Roman Polanski.  Thoughts?

Comments

[Aideen]

Like I said in the last thread, the film that springs to mind the most is John Tucker Must Die. It's probably not the most misogynistic film I've seen by a long run, but it stuck in my head more than most for some reason. It made me really really angry, not least because, misogyny aside, it's the single worst film ever made (I got roped into seeing it with some teenie-bopper friends of mine). But also cos it just reinforced all kinds of gender stereotypes (like all girls are catty and bitchy and can't work together as a team). And in the end to get revenge on the guy they feed him oestrogen which turns him into a blithering sobbing mess - a bit of transphobia to round it off.

Most feminist film? I'll have to have a think about that. I really liked Kill Bill volume 1 though - I did a feminist review of it here:
http://www.thefword.org.uk/reviews/2003/11/kill_bill

This is actually really hard. For some reason, I want to say "Dogville," but that's really not so anti-woman as anti-everybody. Making movies like that for the enjoyment of the masochistic is Lars von Trier's schtick.

In The Company of Men feels misogynistic, but I think it is more a comment on misogyny. But then, it was directed by the same guy who did "The Wicker Man," so I could be wrong.

As for Feminist movies, for all out butt-kicking, Tank Girl would have to be up there.

But I'm not sure butt-kicking should be our measure.

CC

[LoudFem]

I'm not sure if it is the *most* misogynistic film, but Crank was absolute filth. Not only was the plot too simple and boring, but there was a pretty graphic rape scene. Of course, they didn't call it rape but that's exactly what it was. Plot: Main character dude was poisoned by some other guy and in order to survive to get the antidote, he had to keep his heart rate up while he searched. Apparently, having forced sex with your girlfriend in public while she screams "no" but then suddenly turns into a wild, willing partner is ok. I'm hoping this is a fantasy that a lot of guys don't have. Don't waste your time or money on this crap.

The most feminist film?.....Well, I'm a big fan of the Mists of Avalon!

[evil_fizz]

I don't know about most misogynistic ever, but the Departed rates pretty highly on this scale for me.

[Annamal]

Feminist movies, I got to give a plug for my own country and suggest a kids movie: Whale Rider.

Maori culture can at times and in some places be very misogynistic and at the same time has produced some of the stronger women I know and some of the stronger women in New Zealand history.

[The Happy Feminist]

I loved the Mists of Avalon. I haven't seen the rest of the movies mentioned here, but my husband loved the Departed so now I'm confused! Does this mean I am going to be annoyed with him when I see it?

[roula]

argh, i was sad to read your post on "the wicker man" -- it sounds horrendous and yet i really, really liked "in the company of men" which is apparently by the same director.

and yeah, cc, i enjoyed "company of men" because i read it as a commentary on misogyny, not as actually misogynistic. if anyone's not seen it, it essentially sets up and then demolishes the supposed difference beween "the nice guy and the asshole". it had a pretty strong effect on me at the time, given that i was JUST starting to pull apart that myth myself at the time.

[arielladrake]

LoudFem, I'm with you on Crank. I'm bad with "most ... ever" things, because I'm just not that good at retaining movies (which on some level is good because I get more rewatch value), but that just squicked me. That whole scene, with the whole Japanese schoolgirl thing on top of that, made me feel ill. I normally like Jason Statham (that being the reason I saw the film), but that was just awful.

[Charlotte]

How about _Pretty Woman_? It perpetuates the Cinderella/ Pygmalion myth, namely that women who try to make it by themselves have nothing but their bodies to rely on in economic exchanges, no matter whether these occur in the street or in the marital bed.

[Barbara P]

Moolaade was a very feminist film.

[The Happy Feminist]

Prety Woman was dreadful. Misogyny wrapped up in a pretty bow.

[Chalicechick]

Michele: You know, even though we've watched Pretty Woman like thirty-six times, I never get tired of making fun of it.
Romy: Aw, look, poor thing - they won't let her shop. Yeah - like those salesgirls in Beverly Hills aren't bigger whores than she is.

[Sydney]

I thought Independence Day was pretty mysogynist. No female fighter pilots, and every woman who had her own career/thing going on was portaryed as unappealing and either died -- or got sick until she discovered that her TRUE AIM in life should be to support the men. The stripper character was "good" since her original job entailed taking her clothes off and serving men.

Annamal: I disagreed about Whale Rider. I thought it was rather sexist. Why should the girl care what her mysogynist grandpa thinks? At the end he still thinks women are inferior as a group -- SHE just has special powers.

Feminist..... hard to think of one off the top of my head, but I really liked Blue Crush and Bend it Like Beckham. You can see my penchant for movies about sporty girls showing though. It's my weakness.

[evil_fizz]

but my husband loved the Departed so now I'm confused!

The Departed was already not high on my list of favored films because it's VERY violent and I'm not much into violent movies. In Jack Nicholson's first scene, he asks a comely young diner waitress if she's got her period yet and leers at her. It's gross beyond words. The level of homophobia is also pretty freakish.

My fiance likes it, but he's far more immune to those sorts of things than I am.

[Isabel]

It's far from most misogynist, but I was really bothered by the sexist undertones in The Matrix. There's one female protagonist, and her purpose in life is... to fall in love with the male protagonist? Really? Oy.

Also, as for most-unexepctedly-feminist-friendly film, I would like to give a nod to Red Eye. I went expecting a fun, stupid thriller starring two young actors I think have tons of potential (Cilian Murphy and Rachel McAdams), and I wasn't disappointed--but I was also surprised by SPOILER SPOILER SPOILER: Rachel McAdams's character's admission of being a rape survivor, and her declaration of not wanting to be a victim again, right before she stabbed Cilian Murphy in the throat with a pen, which was pretty badass.

[chem_fem]

After reading IRobot I think that film is one of the worst I've seen. They take one of the most amazing powerful women in literature (Susan Calvin) cut her age by half (at least!!) make her 100 times more attractive and sap out all of her intellect. She then boils down to a character who finds a lot of different ways to say "that isn't possible" and there is a scene where she is asked to do something and she pouts for a whole minute before saying "ok then". Even Asimov discribes her as the best roboticist in history in stories that take place after her death and she gets turned into a pout and an excuse to show how good Will Smith's chest looks like. This is another film where the male lead is "hyper" masculine. I think he has overdosed on Testosterone.

Lord of the rings has got to be up there too, although that is at least pretty like the book. I never understood why they send out boys to fight but let women hide out.

There's so many but I can't think of them all right now.

[Lya Kahlo]

"The Departed was already not high on my list of favored films because it's VERY violent and I'm not much into violent movies. In Jack Nicholson's first scene, he asks a comely young diner waitress if she's got her period yet and leers at her. It's gross beyond words. The level of homophobia is also pretty freakish."

I think this is part of what made it a good movie. It shows the digusting aspects of these men, and makes them pretty damn unlikable, imo.

There wasn't a single character that was likable in that movie. And neither should there have been. (imo)

[Ismone]

I kinda liked Mark Wahlberg's character. He was a jackass, but he was a funny jackass with a cause. Plus I think he's kind of cute.

But it wasn't until 2/3 of the way through the movie
SPOILER ALERT!

That I figured out that Jack Nicholson was supposed to be Irish instead of just being some random white guy with a lot of Irish friends.

[claire s]

the departed is definitely NOT a movie for those who like strong female characters. there is one woman who gets more than a moment of screen time, and she is, well, not a strong character.
i think aside from that (ha) the departed does a decent job of making you know that it's the characters who are sexist and homophobic, not necessarily the movie itself. none of the men are people worth knowing, and yet they are full characters. so i think the actors did a great job of conveying their full-bodied assholery.

[Arwen]

Ooh. Yes, Whale Rider; great female protagonist.

I also, oddly, really liked the portrayal by Emma Thompson of the writer in Stranger than Fiction; and I expected nothing more than dough-heads. She was a writer, not a pretty girl. Of course, Maggie Gl... Glynanhaal? Glankaabaahallaic? Was a pretty girl, but she was also a nifty drop-out hippie activist businesswoman. Okay, so she baked; but she baked subversively.

Louise Fletcher in the sci-fi movie, Brainstorm (early 80s) made me really believe in the possibility of excellent female scientists. In a serious, who cares that she's a woman way; the role was pictured without fuss or bother. (Similarly, Monkeys in the Fog... um... Gorillas in the Mist).

I also think that Streep in "The Devil Wears Prada" was deadly. Not likeable, but a fabulous character.

[maja]

Ingmar Bergman's "Fanny and Alexander" from the early 80s has both very strong feminist AND misogynist characters - and subsequent messages. (It is six hours long though!)

It is told from the perspective of a young boy and gives both an innocent and powerless/overwhelmed view of gender politics. The narrative advocates female independence, though, and interestingly enough a key character is cleverly not given a gender. Recommended.

[TERESE]

what about 'Carousel'? That was pretty bad. Just sugar coated wife-beating.

[zhongliu]

china冷云 幻想空间 传说中De天涯 冷狐的梦 蓝蓝的天

[scrappy]

I recently saw "History of Violence" and flew into a rage at the scene where the husband first beats his wife and then rapes her -- but halfway through she decides she *likes* it. Disgusting misogynist crap.

Most feminist film? I'd have to say Bandits. First of all, Cate Blanchett rocks. But more importantly, she falls in love with the two male leads and they want her to choose between them and she says, No, I want both of you. She refuses to be the property of either one. There are other things about the film that are less-than-perfectly feminist, but that was downright subversive.

[mandy]

meryl streep's character in the Devil Wears Prada particularly bothered me, actually. at first it seemed the writer made an attempt to show a headstrong, successful mother and businesswoman (etc etc) - the "quintessential feminist figure" - which rubbed me in the wrong direction a little bit for its lack of creativity, but i let it go in favor of seeing how they would develop her character.
i was extremely disappointed though, when she finally revealed that Miranda Priestly actually DIDN'T have it all together and her entire life outside of work was apparently falling apart because of her dedication to her career. not that i personally favor career over motherhood over anything else, but the movie not-so-subtly made a clearly opinionated point that there's only so far you can go as a fierce, powerful and intelligent woman...if you want to "have it all."

as a side note, to answer the original question: i just finished watching Boys On The Side, which is incredibly moving and empowering. and very very feminist (albeit a bit outdated now). what a well-made flim.