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What a wonderful, thoughtful post. Thanks!

>>> I recognize that a person may have thought through all the issues, examined all of her assumptions, and simply reached different conclusions than I have … Even though I think the women with whom I disagree are wrong, I am capable of recognizing that they may have considered the issue.

First, the attitude you express in the first sentence above is remarkably tolerant for a feminist, as far as what I have observed.

But the second sentence, which I’m not certain isn’t really stated by you tongue-in-cheek, appears to have you subscribing to the idea that Truth exists in cultural matters, and that once you personally have consciously considered a cultural idea, practice, or attitude, the conclusion you reach is Truth. Anyone who reaches a different conclusion is “wrong”. If it wasn’t a tongue-in-cheek pronouncement, don’t you find the notion that someone believes they possess cultural Truth, and that others who don’t hold the belief are wrong, disturbing?

(By the way, far be it for me to stick up for Ann Coulter, but she has never stated that a woman’s place is in the home. She has said that (a) children benefit from having a full-time parent, and (b) women who choose to be full-time parents should not be looked down upon for making that choice.)

(219 words)

I think there is such a thing as Truth. Where I become kind of like a relativist is that I believe the truth can be difficult to ascertain. I am fallible so I could be wrong, just as much as everyone else. But using the tools of reason, I can strive to come an understanding of the truth about any given topic. I think human beings, misguided as we often are about a lot of things, have done a glorious job at reaching towards truth and thus making progress in fields like science and politics and moral and ethical reasoning etc. etc. When I reach my personal conclusions about a given matter, I believe I am right and I then may seek to influence others to agree with me. At the same time, I am capable of recognizing the possibility that I could be wrong about a given matter. Thus, I can hold two semi-conflicting ideas in my head at a given moment: (A) that those who disagree with me are wrong and (B) that they have considered the issue thoroughly and believe I am wrong (and that there is always a smidgen of a possibility that they are in fact right and I am wrong).

The Ann Coulter reference was to that she uses terms like "girl soldier.”

First, the attitude you express in the first sentence above is remarkably tolerant for a feminist, as far as what I have observed.

A person can't win for trying around here.

Great post! For me, I don't think using terms like "false consciousness" in everyday life is really helpful in helping people to think about feminism. Where I do think terminology and theory are helpful are in posts and conversations like this, where you think through some of the implications of the theory and how it "looks" in everyday life. I think this is the real heart of theory, when you can make it "make sense" to explain the world around you. I particularly liked your exploration of unquestioned assumptions & internalized attitudes. Thanks!

I wouldn't refrain from using "false consciousness" as an apt description of a state of mind, anymore than I would be scared of using a four letter word that did the trick.

It's a quick-two-word approach to a precise philosophical description, and it's been around in political, artistic, and psychological water coolers for almost a century,

Go for it-- call a spade a spade, let your FC flag fly when you see it plain as day!

Ohmigosh Susie Bright! I'm starstruck!

(And thank you for the advice!)

Like you said, I don't think that most feminists would use terms like "false conciousness". Before the feministe thing, I didn't even know what the phrase meant, just that it is was bad and something about Marx. (Thank godless for wikipedia).

Sometimes, I think one of the major difficulties with feminism is that the language is so remmoved from the day to day venacular. "Patriarchy" is a self-sustaining, self-reinforcing status quo, not some vague manevolant force or conspiracy. "False consciousness" is not that somebody brainwashed you actively, more like you have engaged in perphiral thinking to get to some of your beliefs (unquestioned assumptions are a part of false consciousness, as far as I can tell). "Consent" and "choice" only have real meaning in an equal society, that doesn't mean that all sex is rape or all choices are good ones or can be divorced from context.

And the biggest one: sexist is a critism, not a general insult meaning "bad".

I can accept your analysis of Truth, and "hold[ing] two semi-conflicting ideas in my head at a given moment." Excellent explanation, Happy. I think a lot of people today don’t know whether it’s “okay” to think they are right about something, and that someone else is wrong. This is especially true, I find, of a silent majority of younger people who are more often now taught that it’s not only wrong to say they believe they’re right, but that it’s even wrong to think it. And of course there’s a fine line to walk between believing you’re right, and being closed to the fact you might be wrong. How we reach that balance is a facinating discussion to me.

I reached your site through Feministing and I just wanted to say how much I liked this post. I agree with your idea of "truth", that you can think you are right while still accepting the possibility that you might be wrong. I think this is an important thought process and as Richard's comment says the thought that one can be "right" is lacking in many young people. Being in my 20's I tend to see this a lot among my peers, I wonder if it's worse in those even younger.

It's good to have the internet to come to and read some real discussion of topics like this, thank you :)

That was a frickin awesome post, happy. Gonna post that on my blog, if you don't mind!

Very thoughtful and enjoyable post. Your "different values" category is a good example of the problems with cultural relativism - in intro. anthropology, the question of "If all cultural values are equal, what about Hitler's Germany?" is always used to illustrate that.

I've been around more tolerant feminists than not (is that strange?), but I have noticed that an invocation of Patriarchy (as in, "you're a patriarchial tool") often replaces the term false consciousness.

Though I am no Marxist, I did get my feminism with a side of Marxism (as well as Lacan) when I studied it, so "false consciousness" was certainly part of the discussion. I think this post gets at some of the categories of what could be called "false consciousness" and also gets at what some of the problems with the concept are.

Nonetheless, it IS a useful concept. A nice example is that in many cultures where female genital mutilation is prevalent, the procedure is performed by and the girls who undergo it are procured by women. And some (though certainly by no means all) women who have underwent the procedure defend it is a useful way of ensuring keeping young women from becoming sexually active at too young an age.

I see no better description for that than "false consciousness". The concept is certainly more debatable when the facts are not so extreme, but there are, unfortunately, circumstances in this world where women help defend and perpetuate practices that are unambiguously bad for women.

Interesting post, but I have to add one additional caveat to your analysis.

If you read Twiggy, for example, in her infamous blowjob post, you get an assertion of false consciousness that is unfalsifiable and undemonstrable. Any attempt or piece of evidence to show that it isn't (or even that does show it) false consciousness is simply seen as an additional rationalization and yet more false consciousness.

I believe it is this property of the concept that separates FC from simply being mistaken.

And that kind of FC is simply never useful in any kind of serious debate. It amounts to really nothing more a refusal to engage in any debate at all, relying entirely on ideology.

By Twiggy, does Patrick mean Twisty? As in Twisty Faster?

May I suggest that Patrick go back and reread the infamous blowjob debate a little more carefully, as he has apparently misread that as woefully as he has misread the great Twisty's name?

oh, how sad, all the slagging of Marxism. I happen to think Marxism is one of the most sophisticated and complex theories in modern economic and political philosophy. But then, I'm Canadian. We don't have such a hate/hate relationship with communism/socialism.

but the point... great post. In my feminist group of friends, and in my feminist theory classes, we talk about false consciousness all the time. I don't htink it's that far removed from modern ACADEMIC feminist thought - but in feminism as a popular social theory perhaps it is. I'm rather surprised to hear that it isn't part of the woodwork, so to speak, of contemporary feminism on a popular level. I agree, I think parhaps "patriarchy" is a common substitute.

thanks!

I was going to write on exactly this topic, but you beat me to it. And said everything I wanted to say, better than I could.

I think Patrick has a point about falsifiability, though perhaps not in the specific context of Twisty's famous BJ post. Any theory that takes any argument against it as evidence of its truth is flawed. (Of course there are fossil records of evolution... God put them there for us to find! Of course you think doing foo is in your best interest... you've been brainwashed by the patriarchy!)

"(By the way, far be it for me to stick up for Ann Coulter, but she has never stated that a woman’s place is in the home. She has said that (a) children benefit from having a full-time parent, and (b) women who choose to be full-time parents should not be looked down upon for making that choice.)"

I think I'm feeling kind of ill. I never thought that I'd agree with that horrid woman--and yet you've proven me wrong. Damn you Richard! A pox on your house!

Oh, c'mon. We all can do basic logic. If children benefit from having a parent in the home full-time, and the only people who are supposed to choose to be at home full-time are women then....gosh! Do you think she's suggesting that a mother's place is in the home?

(And let's drop this "full-time parent" nonsense. Nobody suggests that Dad is a "part-time parent" because he goes to work 9-5, or that he stops being a parent while he's earning a paycheck.)

Mythago wrote: If children benefit from having a parent in the home full-time, and the only people who are supposed to choose to be at home full-time are women then....gosh! Do you think she's suggesting that a mother's place is in the home?

I think maybe you're stuck in the 1950s Mythago. I saw a research survey a few months ago that suggested that the number of stay-at-home fathers has TRIPLED in the last 30 years. That's a 100% increase every 10 years! And I know from personal experience practicing law that the number of FATHERS receiving child support from mother's has also increased significantly, even in the last 15 years. Not only that, but friends of mine who have kids share the child rearing duties, something that didn't happen in the '50s. Do you live in the back waters of Appalachia?

Richard, I think Mythago was saying that the people who make the comments you attribute to Ann Coulter and then claim that they are not saying that mothers are the ones who should be home full time with their kids are being disingenuous. And that by stating that Ann Coulter makes those comments but doesn't say that women should be the ones at home with their kids, you are being disingenuous as well. Mythago, am I correct?

You got it.

It's especially funny because Richard apparently missed that my husband is a stay-at-home dad. Oopsie.

>>> [ ... ] people who make the comments you attribute to Ann Coulter and then claim that they are not saying that mothers are the ones who should be home full time with their kids are being disingenuous.

Krissy-- If a person has never said what you assign to them, does that mean you're a mind reader, or that you're just making stuff up? I'd love to know how that works.

>>> It's especially funny because Richard apparently missed that my husband is a stay-at-home dad.

That's especially funny as your husband's personal status is completely immaterial to anything I wrote since he alone is statistically irrelevant. Oopsie ;)

Perhaps Coulter has never said that a woman's place is in the home. She has stated that woman shouldn't have the vote, and are too stupid to handle money, and that they shouldn't be in the Armed Forces because they're simply too vicious to be serving in positions of authority. Well, you know, far be it from me to pretend to read someone's mind, but are these the sort of folk she thinks ought to be raising the next generation?

If a person has never said what you assign to them

Richard, the logic is not that hard to follow. If Ann Coulter says that children need a parent at home all day, and also says that women (not men, just women) should be honored to make the choice to stay at home, she's clearly implying that mothers ought to be at home with their children.

your husband's personal status is completely immaterial to anything I wrote since he alone is statistically irrelevant

Hm. You wrote that I was stuck in the 1950s and questioned whether I live in a backwater. You also offered 'friends of mine' as evidence. In other words, you accused me of being clueless about stay-at-home dads and then provided a statistically irrelevant example. Why not just admit you put your foot in your mouth and move on?

If a person has never said what you assign to them

You're doing a rather bang-up job on the 'making it up' front; why don't you tell us? Perhaps you could throw in another fake link while you're at it.

I guess what I always keep coming back to, especially in a "personal is political" context, ultimately: it's not really for any one person to determine if someone else, who's trying to raise her own consciousness, is doing it "falsely" or not.

I mean, there's a place for confrontation (for that is what that is, telling someone else she's "falsely conscious,") but:

1) there are ways and ways

2) there are times and places

3) otherwise it's going to have the opposite effect of what you were going for; unless indeed your goal was to just alienate the other person more, or at best shame her into going along with whatever you've deemed "true consciousness."

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