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will

Clearly she must not have been hot as a "he" and didnt exude being rich.

In all seriousness, I find it hard to determine many lessons about serious dating from bar life. I do not think that learning how to meet people in a bar is a great life lesson.

The Happy Feminist

Misogynist!

The Happy Feminist

Actually, I think you're right. If I had sons, I would definitely advise against trying to meet women in bars. As a woman and a lover of bar-hopping, however, this kind of approach is inevitable. I guess it's a luxury in a way to be able to go to a bar and have a conversation with a friend without being bothered.

But I do think that men (not all of you) sometimes resent being women in other dating contexts as well . . .

Sara

A lot of people confuse directness with rudeness. A guy walks in between you and a friend who are having a conversation, and tries to start a conversation by saying, "Oh, am I interrupting?" Well, yes, you are. No, it's not rude for me to tell you that. If you're just looking to get to know someone at a bar, walk up, shake their hand, and tell them who you are and what made you want to talk to them ("I overheard you talking about dog training," or "I saw you at a movie the other day," etc.)

But you're definitely right, HF. It doesn't take a lot for someone to accuse you of "leading them on." I think it just comes down to the accepted notion that if you introduce yourself to someone of the gender you want to sleep with in a bar, you're trying to sleep with them. There are places that aren't meat markets like that, but in my college town, there aren't a lot.

This is definitely one thing that being married makes easier.

will

"what made you want to talk to them ("I overheard you talking about dog training," or "I saw you at a movie the other day," etc.)"

Multiple choice quiz. If men (or women) followed Sara's advice, which statement would be made most often:

a. "I could tell from a distance that you were smart."

b. "I could tell from a distance that you were witty."

c. "I could tell from a distance that you had a great butt."


Or "Watching you dance made me think that:

a. "You are a sweet considerate person."

b. "You would be great in bed."

c. "You love Rilke's poems just like me!"

norbizness

I've read other excerpts of this book on other sites, and invariably my bullshit meter jumps into the red. Does the question "Where the [obscenity deleted] is your [obscene gerund deleted] Adam's Apple?" ever appear in the book?

The Happy Feminist

Nor, ever heard of Teena Brandon?

And if I had a dollar for every time I've heard that Rilke line . . .

alsis39

Will beat me to it.

Maybe for her next trick, Norah should make herself over to look like an undesireable woman and then go back to the bar --and the world at large-- to observe in detail the differences between being a beautiful woman at the bar and being a supposedly ugly one.

Say she put on fifty pounds, added some crows-feet, got an out-of-date hairdo, thick glasses, no makeup. Say she didn't shave her pits for a month and then sat around in a bar in a tanktop while reading Brownmiller or Dworkin. Mind you, she would be respectably dressed and clean. She would speak nicely in a well-modulated tone, but she wouldn't look like a Desperate Housewife[tm].

How many of these poor, misunderstood guys would even approach her ?

Yes, I'm a smart-ass. I can't help it. It's a middle-child thing.

Sara

Well, will, my point was that typical meat-market reasons aren't going to work if you're introducing yourself to a woman who isn't interested in sleeping with you. If you're going out to get laid, I see no reason to begrudge a woman making clear she isn't interested in being hit on.

will

Sara:
I was just teasing you a little.

If you are looking to get laid, then you would want a quick no so you can move quickly to buying drinks for a different girl.

Is a free drink and implicit contract? Two free beers = one sloppy kiss? Three expensive mixed drinks = dance floor grinding? Delicious cheese sticks with marinara sauce = ?

Curious minds want to know. (I never really did the bar scene myself.)

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