GENTLE CHRISTIAN MOTHERS

I was intrigued to find that this blog got a lot of hits yesterday from a site called Gentle Christian Mothers.  I am not sure why they linked to me because I couldn't find the link, but they seem like an interesting group.  They are Christian mothers who are into something called "attachment parenting," which seems to involve constant contact between mother and child, including breastfeeding for longer than our cultural norm, allowing children to sleep in the same bed with the parents, and responding immediately to a child's cries.  Although I am not a parent, and if I were, I doubt that I would be into all aspects of attachment parenting, I did find their statement on disciplining children refreshing.

I have not blogged about it yet, but I am passionately opposed to the corporal punishment of children.  Most Christian sites I have found on the topic have advocated hitting children for the purposes of discipline, with plenty of Bible quotations to back up that point of view.  But the Gentle Christian Mothers believe that fear and purposely inflicted pain have no place in Biblical childraising. (And they identify support in the Bible for their position.)  As a non-believer, I do not advocate reliance on the Bible for child raising advice, bu I am certainly happy to give three cheers to any group that opposes humiliating and hurting children in the name of discipline. 

Comments

[Emily Liz]

You might rethink your opinion of Gentle Christian Mothers if you take a look at their site and see what brats many of their children are. Even the kids' fathers can't stand them in some cases.

[Norml Citizen]

How do you know their children are brats. What infor can you offer to back up this ridculous statement

[Marmee]

I was reading your Gentle Christian Mothers comment. As a frequent poster on that site, I can tell you that we were coming by to read your thought provoking blog and enjoyed it very much. As a whole, I have found the GCM's to be well-read and find it refreshing to converse with christians who actually think and study instead of blindly following dogma. I am sorry that the other poster thinks the children there are brats. All I can offer is that she hasn't met mine - two of the kindest and most compassionate children you will ever meet. I consider myself a christian feminist and I love your blog. I also consider myself a gentle person and I am unapologetic about never hitting my children or promoting violence in my house. And, just for the record, my childrens father loves them and loves being around them - in fact, he homeschools them while I work.

[Lois]

If you define a brat as someone who expresses their feelings in a way that might make others uncomfortable then I would say we are all "brats" at times. If you define someone NOT being a brat as someone who APPEARS to be good or nice all the time then I would have to question if that person were actually being truthful to what they feel or perhaps they are just trained to fear expressing anything but happyness and smiles?

[Amy]

GCMs get it. Servant leadership. Active compassion. And not judging by mere appearances. Spin off: no brats here, LOL. And if there were? That's OK too. Not a single one of us goes to heaven by being 'well behaved'. Jesus is concerned with the heart, NOT our ability to conform to rules and culture. That's the gospel, Emily Liz. It's a gospel of Grace.

[Nancy]

I am a Christain and have 2 children, one 18 and one 12. My husband and I never spanked our kids, and they are definitly not brats... we both came from abusive homes and decided not to spank the kids... because, in our experiance most parents spank out of anger and not discipline... which is not demonstrating God's love... that is not too say that I have never been angry with my kids... because I have, but I just never wanted to cross that line with them... Kids need discipline and not fear tactics because they grow up and you can not spank them when they are 18 ... I also did not like the idea of having my kids in the "family bed" because that was time for my husband and I ... not the kids, they are fine sleeping in their own bed...

Nancy

[Emily]

I find it a bit ironic that the Gentle Christian Mothers promote so-called "natural" living yet it seems a good portion of these women are on some sort of brain meds (Paxil, Prozac, etcetera).

[Reformed GCM]

I am a former member of GCM and I have to agree with the fact that many (but not all) of the children raised by the mothers there are brats. Many of them practice extremely permissive parenting and call it Gentle Disicpline when in fact they are not providing any boundaries, structure, or discipline in their parenting. This was not supposed to be the intended purpose of GCM, and is not parenting practices of Jeri, Crystal, or Joanne. What each of them practices is true Gentle Discipline, a true and consistent teaching of their children and molding and guiding their path. Unfortunately many of the mothers that have joined GCM over the years are too afraid of their children to discipline them. Most of them were abused themselves, or just never had an example of what it means to be a parent. There has to be a balance in our approach to disciplining our children. Yes, our children should be able to express their feelings. However they must also learn how to do this in an appropriate and respectful manner. There are absolutes of right and wrong in the world and each of us must learn to function in society. The family is supposed to be the first society our children experience. If our children do not learn to deal with conflict, disappointment, and the consequences to not following the rules with their parents they will have a very difficult time adapting later in life. Many of them never will. That is the travesty of parents who call themselves "attached" and who claim they practice "Gentle Discipline" when they don't use any kind of discipline with their children, or with themselves in their parenting. Gentle Discipline is about so much more than whether or not you spank your child. That's just a drop in the pond.

[Emily Liz]

Glory alleluia! I'm delighted that somebody has seen the light about the Gentle Christian Mothers. On the one hand, I will add one caveat: some of the children of the contributors may very well have neurological problems that affect their behaviour and maybe a "punitive" approach wouldn't work for them. On the other hand, it seems that these kids aren't getting any discipline at all, which isn't good either.

One of the saddest cases is that of a woman who calls herself Chris3jam. Her children apparently are unwelcome in venues like the library because of their poor behaviour. Now she does say her children have ADD, but once when she admitted on the board that she could barely stand them and her husband was always complaining about the way they behaved. Immediately several of the other board members assured her that her children were "fine." Only one - Mamame I believe her name was, who admits she sometimes uses corporal punishment on her children - said that it was not good for the children or the entire family if they were allowed to act like brats. The others immediately berated Mamame. So it seems like the majority of GCM members are "enablers," like a wife who always makes excuses for her alcoholic husband as to why he can't stop drinking.

I agree Joanne is one of the saner members of the board who does set limits for her children (I'm not sure about Crystal or Jeri; I don't seem to see many posts by them). And I agree that no, most of the GCM members don't practise "gentle discipline;" they practise no discipline at all. And in the end, it's the children who are going to suffer as a result.

[Emily]

Nancy, Lois and Norml Citizen, go back to school and learn how to spell.

[Nancy]

Thanks for the tip Emily, however where I come from we spell practice not practise.... perhaps you can concentrate on what people are saying instead of correcting thier spelling.... if you re-read your last paragraph you will see that you to have made errors....

Nancy

[Emily Liz]

Well, contrary to what you might think, the United States is not the centre of the universe, and in Britain and Canada "practise" used as a verb is spelled with an "s." Oops, sorry, I guess I insulted you by mentioning the name of your former colonial master.

Why are you so arrogant to presume everybody comes from the States and should spell the same as you do?

[Reformed GCM]

http://dictionary.reference.com/browse/practise

prac·tise /ˈpræktɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prak-tis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object), -tised, -tis·ing. British. practice.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.

American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source prac·tise (prāk'tĭs) Pronunciation Key
v. & n. Chiefly British
Variant of practice.

prac'tis·er n.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.

WordNet - Cite This Source practise

verb
1. engage in a rehearsal (of) [syn: rehearse]
2. carry out or practice; as of jobs and professions; "practice law" [syn: practice]
3. learn by repetition; "We drilled French verbs every day"; "Pianists practice scales" [syn: drill]

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University

Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source
practise1 [ˈprӕktis] verb

to do exercises to improve one's performance in a particular skill etc
Example: She practises the piano every day; You must practise more if you want to enter the competition.

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Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
prac·tise /ˈpræktɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prak-tis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation
–verb (used with object), verb (used without object), -tised, -tis·ing. British. practice.

Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1) - Cite This Source
prac·tice /ˈpræktɪs/ Pronunciation Key - Show Spelled Pronunciation[prak-tis] Pronunciation Key - Show IPA Pronunciation noun, verb, -ticed, -tic·ing.
–noun 1. habitual or customary performance; operation: office practice.
2. habit; custom: It is not the practice here for men to wear long hair.
3. repeated performance or systematic exercise for the purpose of acquiring skill or proficiency: Practice makes perfect.
4. condition arrived at by experience or exercise: She refused to play the piano, because she was out of practice.
5. the action or process of performing or doing something: to put a scheme into practice; the shameful practices of a blackmailer.
6. the exercise or pursuit of a profession or occupation, esp. law or medicine: She plans to set up practice in her hometown.
7. the business of a professional person: The doctor wanted his daughter to take over his practice when he retired.
8. Law. the established method of conducting legal proceedings.
9. Archaic. plotting; intrigue; trickery.
10. Usually, practices. Archaic. intrigues; plots.
–verb (used with object) 11. to perform or do habitually or usually: to practice a strict regimen.
12. to follow or observe habitually or customarily: to practice one's religion.
13. to exercise or pursue as a profession, art, or occupation: to practice law.
14. to perform or do repeatedly in order to acquire skill or proficiency: to practice the violin.
15. to train or drill (a person, animal, etc.) in something in order to give proficiency.
–verb (used without object) 16. to do something habitually or as a practice.
17. to pursue a profession, esp. law or medicine.
18. to exercise oneself by repeated performance in order to acquire skill: to practice at shooting.
19. Archaic. to plot or conspire.

Also, British, practise (for defs. 11–19).

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

[Origin: 1375–1425; (v.) late ME practisen, practizen (< MF pra(c)tiser) < ML prāctizāre, alter. of prācticāre, deriv. of prāctica practical work < Gk prāktik n. use of fem. of prāktikós practic; see -ize; (n.) late ME, deriv. of the v.]

—Related forms
prac·tic·er, noun

—Synonyms 2. See custom. 3. application. See exercise.
Dictionary.com Unabridged (v 1.1)
Based on the Random House Unabridged Dictionary, © Random House, Inc. 2006.
American Heritage Dictionary - Cite This Source prac·tise (prāk'tĭs) Pronunciation Key
v. & n. Chiefly British
Variant of practice.

prac'tis·er n.

(Download Now or Buy the Book) The American Heritage® Dictionary of the English Language, Fourth Edition
Copyright © 2000 by Houghton Mifflin Company.
Published by Houghton Mifflin Company. All rights reserved.
WordNet - Cite This Source practise

verb
1. engage in a rehearsal (of) [syn: rehearse]
2. carry out or practice; as of jobs and professions; "practice law" [syn: practice]
3. learn by repetition; "We drilled French verbs every day"; "Pianists practice scales" [syn: drill]

WordNet® 2.1, © 2005 Princeton University
Kernerman English Multilingual Dictionary (Beta Version) - Cite This Source
practise1 [ˈprӕktis] verb

to do exercises to improve one's performance in a particular skill etc
Example: She practises the piano every day; You must practise more if you want to enter the competition. Arabic: يَتَمَرَّن، يَتَدَرَّب
Chinese (Simplified): 实习，练习
Chinese (Traditional): 實習，練習
Czech: cvičit
Danish: øve; træne
Dutch: oefenen
Estonian: harjutama
Finnish: harjoitella
French: (s')entraîner
German: üben
Greek: εξασκούμαι
Icelandic: æfa (sig)
Indonesian: berlatih
Italian: esercitarsi a*
Japanese: 練習する
Latvian: vingrināt; trenēt
Lithuanian: lavintis, treniruotis
Norwegian: øve (seg i), trene
Polish: ćwiczyć
Portuguese (Brazil): exercitar, treinar
Portuguese (Portugal): treinar(-se)
Romanian: a se antrena, a exersa
Russian: тренироваться; упражняться
Slovak: cvičiť
Slovenian: vaditi
Spanish: entrenarse, ejercitarse
Swedish: öva, träna
Turkish: alıştırma yapmak, çalışmak

practise2 [ˈprӕktis] verb

to make (something) a habit
Example: to practise self-control

[Emily]

Thanks, Reformed GCM!

[Nancy]

Okay Emily I get it you are brilliant! Oh by the way I am not from the USA!! Try not to make so many assumptions about people you do not even know... you seem like a very angry woman, perhaps therapy should be your next step in life as oppossed to venting online and wasting so much space to make a point that only you care about!
Nancy

[Nancy]

Hey Emily perhaps you need to go back to being a GCM because this new side of you is not very nice... good luck to your kids and yourself in the future...hope they are good spellers....
Nancy

[Emily Liz]

I found this on the Internet (I didn't write it myself):

"GCM, well all i see there is whining, pouting and crying, and screaming. children who throw temper tantrums at EIGHT yrs old. and upwards. i see moms who are exhausted and tired and don't want to be around their kids. i see parents who truly don't even LIKE their kids, yet pretend to b/c not to would be just horrible. if only they would teach their children to obey and control their emotions, they would be gentle too. i see women who have have HUGE problems in their marriages, b/c they won't yield to their dh's authority and spank that child, or stop co sleeping when dh wants to, or make the kid mind, or stop undermining dh's authority. i don't blame the pooor man. i wouldnt' want to be around most of those kids either.

"also, the owner's being a pastor is certainly not a good recommendation (although actually Crystal LUtton is NOT the owner,e Jeri is.) women are to keep silent in the church, and are not to be pastors. (a little hard for a woman to be 'the husband of one wife'). so if you are trying to say she should be believed b/c she is a scholar of the Bible and pastor, well her theology is messed up fromt he get go. and i have read several things there that show me that her children are terrible and so are the other moderators and administarators children.

"Thank you GOD, that i didn't listen to this type of non punitive garbage that these poor women are buying into. Thank God for a better way."

[Emily Liz]

Nancy, I think you're confusing Reformed GCM and me. I have never been a part of Gentle Christian Mothers.

As for my "not so nice" side, I'd rather be mean than stupid.

[Nancy]

Emily your anger issue does make you mean and stupid... you are probablly not so mouthy and brave when you are face to face with someone... you are one of those mouthy and annoying people who are only brave on the phone or on a blog, where you can be rude with no consequence ...
I work with abused women and children perhaps you have been abused and this is what has caused you to be so rude and defensive... if so please get some help... you deserve to be happy!!!

I pray you find some peace and happiness in your life... take care

Nancy

[Crystal--Yes *that* GCM Crystal]

What a great thumbs up--thank you. As a very long time and vocal member of GCM I love any kudos for what we're doing in our corner of the net. Ironically, the bad mouthing going on here is from a banned ex member and a person whose ISP was banned from even lurking at our site because of how caustic and toxic she is *sigh*. We can't stop people from being horrible, but we do try to keep them out of our focus :)

I can attest that my 5 children aren't brats. I've also met many many GCMers in my travels and none of them have had brats for children. The neat thing is that any area where they need to work on discipline they are actively doing it! Finding answers and working *with* their children. Not everyone was well prepared for parenting from their growing up experience :( What a sad statement on our culture.

I think sometimes people who only lurk at GCM get a skewed idea of certain things because when you have a forum for discipline support you are going to get people who are posting their problem areas and seeking help. If they had the answer for that issue they wouldn't be seeking answers. What you see when you are there long term is that people who start out posting for help end up eventually posting support. It's a beautiful, gradual growth--the same as what they have seen in their children. It takes time to learn something new--but once you understand it, you do it.

Good luck with your blog. If you do end up having a child come check us out ;)

Crystal

[Shanna (Epieikeia on GCM)]

Hello!

I am an Admin on GCM and have been part of their group for about 6 years.

I am thrilled to find your blog as I am in school right now for a degree in Social Work with a minor in Women's Studies, so all things "feminist" is very interesting to me right now! [grin]

As for my kiddos being brats...well I have 5 (3 bio ages 10, 7, 6 AND 2 foster ages 11 & 4) and they aren't brats-they are all good kids and I have no issues going anywhere with any of them.

I am not into permissive parenting or authoritative parenting as even secular psychology cautions that both are detrimental to children. I do think it is hard for people to not swing to either end of the spectrum, especially when they were abused as children themselves. In an attempt to reject how they were raised, they swing the pendulum a bit too far, if that makes sense.

Anyways, it's great to find your blog. I will be back to read and thank you for the statement that spanking little children is NOT an effective way to "discipline" children!! ITA!!! Now, off to see what your view is on feminism….I am working on some beliefs of mine and love to read various point of views!!

[Kathy]

I am also an admin at GCM. My children are aged 26, 23 and 16. We were "attachment parents" from the time our oldest son was born, before there was a term for it ;-) I am thankful to have the example of my stepmother who was an attachment parent before me. In the early 70's she breastfed my younger sisters for over two years, and gently guided them into their adulthood, never spanking, etc. She was really a radical for the time! Since I was a decade and more older than my sisters, I absorbed these things from her.

I am certainly happy to give three cheers to any group that opposes humiliating and hurting children in the name of discipline

Amen to that! ;-)

[Goldie]

This came up in my google search today. I really regret I haven't found this earlier. I know I'm coming too late to this party, but FWIW I will leave a comment. Emily tried to troll my blog two years ago. She was the only person I have ever banned from commenting on my site. She's a troll and doesn't know when to stop. After she made a nasty comment about my then 6yo son wanting to kill himself, I banned her by IP. Pay no attention to her comments here.
Also I was a GCM member for about a year, and even though I stopped posting on the forum a long time ago, I most certainly agree with the general ideas of AP. My children are 14 and 12, the 14yo has Aspergers, both were APd to an extent, both have a good reputation in school and among friends as nice, polite kids (as much as an Aspie kid can be nice and polite). It really works and it really is compatible with Christian beliefs. Go GCM!!

[Kristie]

I'm a member of GCM & if anything, I've learned how to clearly & concisely discipline my child better then I had done before. Every mom on GCM is going to have different issues, come from different backgrounds, and struggle in different areas. If you look at the resources given for discipline & at the moderator & admin's posts, you'll find wonderful ideas/helps to assist you in shaping & molding a behaved child without having to resort to violence or punishment.

[Alice]

I've known a few families who've raised children using attachment parenting. They are the most unpleasant children to be around. I'm very much against hitting children, but, please, AP is just ridiculous.

In theory, AP seems quite lovely. But, the result is children who are having tantrums well into elementary school, violent toddlers, and infants who never seem to stop crying. Ever. Attaching to your child, if I'm understanding Dr. Sear correctly, involves removing the boundary between parent and child. You wear, sleep with, nurse, and touch touch touch your kid who, in turn, leads you in the relationship. You are a gentle plaything, not a figure of authority.

The children become very dependent on the parents. I don't know how AP can possibly claim to nurture independence. The offset of dependence is fear. AP children have a skewed view of adults: they consider them to be peers and become frightened when adults behave differently from their parents. They are unsure how to act around other children or anyone else who tries to establish a boundary. Having respect for others is given lip service but it's not something the children really understand. When you never withhold a thing from a child, he expects the world to be his.

In the absence of authority the children try to assume it. Life becomes about behavioral issues and power struggles. I've watched an AP mothers patiently try to practice "gentle discipline" (ie empathy, distraction, etc.) ALL FREAKING AFTERNOON while her kid had chain tantrums because she had asked him to do something he didn't want to. Finally, frustrated, she whipped out the boob to comfort him. Empathy is not something you can really explain, it should be taught by example. Distracting a child from bad behavior teaches the child absolutely nothing. Rewarding tantrums with nursing is practically co-dependence.

I too, am horrified by traditional Christian punishments. I think people who whip, hit and spank their children are barbaric and cruel. Yet, the AP methods of discipline are not impressive. Perhaps the AP parents i know are extreme but the phrase "knock it off" is met with a glare. Stricter verbal discipline would be better. I'm not only disappointed in the Sears method, I think it's cruel to children. They really don't know how to handle a multitude of situations and must be coached and rewarded to do anything.

I'm also concerned about the extended breastfeeding. I'm not sure it's emotionally healthy and I don't think children should have a prolonged exposure to the toxins we carry in our breastmilk.

If you Gentle Christian Mothers are raising well behaved children this way then that's great! And I applaud you for ignoring the "spare the rod, spoil the child" part of the Bible. I'm just not impressed with what I've seen about AP in practice.